Thursday, December 30, 2010

Four Versions of Ecclesiastes 12 and your first journal entry

First Discussion Question: Below are four versions of Ecclesiastes 12.  Which version would be most meaningful for you to read and why?  (200 words maximum, post in Comment Posting Below by January 4 at midnight.  No credit for late submissions.)


 

1.  King James Version

Ecclesiastes 12

   1Remember now thy Creator in the days of thy youth, while the evil days come not, nor the years draw nigh, when thou shalt say, I have no pleasure in them;
   2While the sun, or the light, or the moon, or the stars, be not darkened, nor the clouds return after the rain:
   3In the day when the keepers of the house shall tremble, and the strong men shall bow themselves, and the grinders cease because they are few, and those that look out of the windows be darkened,
   4And the doors shall be shut in the streets, when the sound of the grinding is low, and he shall rise up at the voice of the bird, and all the daughters of musick shall be brought low;
   5Also when they shall be afraid of that which is high, and fears shall be in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, and the grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail: because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets:
   6Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
   7Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
   8Vanity of vanities, saith the preacher; all is vanity.
   9And moreover, because the preacher was wise, he still taught the people knowledge; yea, he gave good heed, and sought out, and set in order many proverbs.
   10The preacher sought to find out acceptable words: and that which was written was upright, even words of truth.
   11The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one shepherd.
   12And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.
   13Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
   14For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
2.  New Living Translation

Ecclesiastes 12

   1 Don’t let the excitement of youth cause you to forget your Creator. Honor him in your youth before you grow old and say, “Life is not pleasant anymore.” 2 Remember him before the light of the sun, moon, and stars is dim to your old eyes, and rain clouds continually darken your sky. 3 Remember him before your legs—the guards of your house—start to tremble; and before your shoulders—the strong men—stoop. Remember him before your teeth—your few remaining servants—stop grinding; and before your eyes—the women looking through the windows—see dimly.
   4 Remember him before the door to life’s opportunities is closed and the sound of work fades. Now you rise at the first chirping of the birds, but then all their sounds will grow faint.
   5 Remember him before you become fearful of falling and worry about danger in the streets; before your hair turns white like an almond tree in bloom, and you drag along without energy like a dying grasshopper, and the caperberry no longer inspires sexual desire. Remember him before you near the grave, your everlasting home, when the mourners will weep at your funeral.
   6 Yes, remember your Creator now while you are young, before the silver cord of life snaps and the golden bowl is broken. Don’t wait until the water jar is smashed at the spring and the pulley is broken at the well.
 7 For then the dust will return to the earth, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.
Concluding Thoughts about the Teacher
    8 “Everything is meaningless,” says the Teacher, “completely meaningless.”
   9 Keep this in mind: The Teacher was considered wise, and he taught the people everything he knew. He listened carefully to many proverbs, studying and classifying them. 10 The Teacher sought to find just the right words to express truths clearly.[a]
   11 The words of the wise are like cattle prods—painful but helpful. Their collected sayings are like a nail-studded stick with which a shepherd[b] drives the sheep.
   12 But, my child,[c] let me give you some further advice: Be careful, for writing books is endless, and much study wears you out.
   13 That’s the whole story. Here now is my final conclusion: Fear God and obey his commands, for this is everyone’s duty. 14 God will judge us for everything we do, including every secret thing, whether good or bad.

American Standard Version

Ecclesiastes 12

   1 Remember also thy Creator in the days of thy youth, before the evil days come, and the years draw nigh, when thou shalt say, I have no pleasure in them;
   2 before the sun, and the light, and the moon, and the stars, are darkened, and the clouds return after the rain;
   3 in the day when the keepers of the house shall tremble, and the strong men shall bow themselves, and the grinders cease because they are few, and those that look out of the windows shall be darkened,
   4 and the doors shall be shut in the street; when the sound of the grinding is low, and one shall rise up at the voice of a bird, and all the daughters of music shall be brought low;
   5 yea, they shall be afraid of that which is high, and terrors shall be in the way; and the almond-tree shall blossom, and the grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail; because man goeth to his everlasting home, and the mourners go about the streets:
   6 before the silver cord is loosed, or the golden bowl is broken, or the pitcher is broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern,
   7 and the dust returneth to the earth as it was, and the spirit returneth unto God who gave it.
   8 Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher; all is vanity.
   9 And further, because the Preacher was wise, he still taught the people knowledge; yea, he pondered, and sought out, and set in order many proverbs.
   10 The Preacher sought to find out acceptable words, and that which was written uprightly, even words of truth.
   11 The words of the wise are as goads; and as nails well fastened are the words of the masters of assemblies, which are given from one shepherd.
   12 And furthermore, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.
   13 This is the end of the matter; all hath been heard: fear God, and keep his commandments; for this is the whole duty of man.
   14 For God will bring every work into judgment, with every hidden thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.


Good News Translation of Ecclesiastes 12

1 So remember your Creator while you are still young, before those dismal days and years come when you will say, "I don't enjoy life."

2 That is when the light of the sun, the moon, and the stars will grow dim for you, and the rain clouds will never pass away.

3 Then your arms, that have protected you, will tremble, and your legs, now strong, will grow weak. Your teeth will be too few to chew your food, and your eyes too dim to see clearly.

4 Your ears will be deaf to the noise of the street. You will barely be able to hear the mill as it grinds or music as it plays, but even the song of a bird will wake you from sleep.

5 You will be afraid of high places, and walking will be dangerous. Your hair will turn white; you will hardly be able to drag yourself along, and all desire will be gone. We are going to our final resting place, and then there will be mourning in the streets.

6 The silver chain will snap, and the golden lamp will fall and break; the rope at the well will break, and the water jar will be shattered.

7 Our bodies will return to the dust of the earth, and the breath of life will go back to God, who gave it to us.

8 Useless, useless, said the Philosopher. It is all useless.

9 But because the Philosopher was wise, he kept on teaching the people what he knew. He studied proverbs and honestly tested their truth.

10 The Philosopher tried to find comforting words, but the words he wrote were honest.

11 The sayings of the wise are like the sharp sticks that shepherds use to guide sheep, and collected proverbs are as lasting as firmly driven nails. They have been given by God, the one Shepherd of us all.

 12 My child, there is something else to watch out for. There is no end to the writing of books, and too much study will wear you out.

13 After all this, there is only one thing to say: Have reverence for God, and obey his commands, because this is all that we were created for.

14 God is going to judge everything we do, whether good or bad, even things done in secret.

29 comments:

  1. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  2. Charles A Gipson
    The New Living Translation version of Ecclesiastes 12 is the most meaningful because it’s the easiest to interpret. I feel the bible may become lost in translation with the archaic form it is written in. Such as the King James Version which speaks in a voice foreign to me. The King James Version reads “5Also when they shall be afraid of that which is high, and fears shall be in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, and the grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail…” I was unclear on what the message was. I could tell it related to praising God, but not much else. The New Living Translation version reads “5Remember him before you become fearful of falling and worry about danger in the streets; before your hair turns white like an almond tree in bloom, and you drag along without energy like a dying grasshopper, and the caperberry no longer inspires sexual desire. Remember him before you near the grave, your everlasting home, when the mourners will weep at your funeral.” Written in modern English (NLT), the message being delivered is to praise God before life’s transitions make you weak and unable; to honor God while you are appreciative of his gifts.

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  3. Svetlana Gotlinskaya
    The New Living Translation of Ecclesiastes would be the most meaningful to me because it is the easiest to understand and the easiest to relate too. In life we sometimes forget to "Thank God" for all the good things we have in life. Whether it be riches, loved ones, or success most people do not stop and think that without God their success or riches would never have coem about. However, when things go bad most times "Why me" or "Why God is this happening to me" is yelled out into the skies. The New Living Translation states clearly that now is the time to thank God for all that he has done for you and will hopefully continue to do. Later in life when people get older or sicker they tend to forget the joyous times of their youth and may no longer find a reason to be grateful or thankful towards God. "4 Remember him before the door to life’s opportunities is closed and the sound of work fades." This statement touched me the most because it clearly states that now, right this very second, is when you should be most grateful for all that you have, even the air in your lungs and a bed to sleep on at night. I also felt that this version is telling us that we should be thankful for everything, not just for being rich, or pretty, or successful but for the food on our table, the money, whatever amount it may be, in our wallets, and the clothes on our back. Living in the 21st century we, as humans, have a tendancy to get caught up in ourselves and our own lives and forget to look at the bigger picture, which is God. Without him nothing we have would matter or have meaning. It is He who provides is with our daily gifts in life and for that we should be thankful.

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  4. The King James Version is the oldest of the four, and probably the most literal translation of the bible (though it was translated according to the King’s instructions and from the Protestant perspective). It would be enjoyable and meaningful to read if I allowed myself the time to contemplate the almost poetic quality of the writing but it definitely requires some work and self interpretation. The American Standard Version also seems to be a bit of a “word for word” translation, though more recent, it still has some antiquated phrases and interpretations. They both use Creator and Preacher, with Preacher particularly adding to a bygone era feeling. The Good News Version oversimplifies too much for me and replaces Preacher with Philosopher, which I thought was an interesting change. So I would go with the New Living Version. In this version, some of the references are updated and the Preacher was changed to Teacher, which again I thought was interesting, in that I would rather someone teach me something rather than preach to me. It seems to strike a balance between literal translation and current interpretation, and is much more reader friendly for today.

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  7. While each translation has its upsides, each appealing to a particular group of people, personally the King James Version (KJV) has to be the most preferable. It is the ideal version available in the English language that offers “word-for-word” translation, versus one “thought-for-thought.” The American Standard Version would come in second, and the other two wouldn’t be all much considered, again personally. For one who studies the Bible regularly, it is proper to use a translation closest to the original Hebrew and Greek texts. The word-for-word approach still preserves the author’s style and presents the text in the way the author intended. There are points to be made about how well certain phrases in Hebrew or Greek translate into English, but by and large the KJV does justice for the original text. For example, consider the phrase “Vanity of vanities, saith the preacher; all is vanity.” Taking the word “vanity” and the word “uselessness,” the two give different implications altogether. One implies ‘emptiness and foolishness,’ while the other simply implies ‘no use.’ Words such as “thou, thy, and thee,” give emphasis to the addressed person(s), archaic as they may sound. From the original text then comes “thought-for-thought” interpretation through ‘inspiration.’

    --Angelo Almonte

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  8. Hello, Everyone. I am going to comment on your posts later tonight or early tomorrow. I am not sure exactly how I am going to do it yet, but if you would be so kind as to supply your e-dress so that I can put it on a contact list. You can just do this in this box: Name and e-mail address will suffice.

    Joe

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  9. From: Greg Johnson
    To: Professor Ryan & Eng 252 Students

    Either the New Living Translation or Good News Translation readings of Ecclesiastes 12 are my most meaningful versions. I own and study from a copy of the New Living Translation, so this would be my overall preference out of convenience. My two favorite verses from this chapter, vs. 2 and vs. 12, help to illustrate. Verse 2 clearly refers to depression, but this becomes less clear with each version. While verse 12 is clear in meaning across each version, I'm amused by the advice and curious as to how many books there actually were in the time this text originated.

    Ecclesiastes 12

    2. New Living Translation
    vs. 2 "...and rain clouds continually darken your sky."
    vs. 12 "...Be careful, for writing books is endless, and much study wears you out."
    4. Good News Translation
    vs 2 "...and the rain clouds will never pass away."
    vs. 12 "There is no end to the writing of books, and too much study will wear you out."
    3. American Standard Version
    vs. 2 "...and the clouds return after the rain;"
    vs. 12 "...of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh."
    1. King James Version
    vs. 2 "...nor the clouds return after the rain:"
    vs. 12 "of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh."

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  10. Good News Translation of Ecclesiastes 12 is the most meaningful to me because it gets to the point and not too wordy and it's easier to understand. Also it tells you to learn about god while your young and try to understand, for when your old and and hard times come you can remember you have something you believe in to help you get through hard times in life. We seem to thank god and love him when something good happens to us or in our lives, but when the bad comes we say there is no god or why would god put me through this. However, we forget that there are times when we have to go through some bad things to get to the good things. The Philosopher thinks all of what he is teaching is useless, but he still continues to teach the people because he see's how it help's some of them deal with life. Therefore, the words of the wise are like a sharp stick a shepherds uses for his sheep to guide them, while sometimes words hurt like the stick. However, at times they need to be said to help you get back on the right path. To sum it up in the book of ecclesiastes 12 god wants us to obey him because he will be judging everything we have done good or bad here on earth.

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  11. First, each of the Versions has a different target audience and the reader will likely hear a message in the version they have chosen.

    I am a bit old school and my personal choice is the King James Version (KSV). It is considerably more poetic than the other versions (“flowery” according to my Catholic friends), but certainly more traditional. I enjoy contemplating the meaning of the words and applying their meaning to my life. The "New Living" or "Good News" Translations, to me, feel more instructional rather than offering a concept and allowing me to choose the path to travel, which I believe the Bible is intended to do.

    For example KJV Ecclesiastes 12:13 “Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter. Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man” encourages me to consider the meaning of each word, and also the entire verse. Whereas the Good News Translation “After all this, there is only one things to say: Have reverence for God, and obey his commands, because this is all that we were created for” lives little be be applied uniquely and does not leave much room for personal interpretation and contemplation.

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  12. Katrina Newcomb
    katrina.newcomb892@csuci.edu

    After reading the four versions of Ecclesiastes 12 the one that was the most meaningful to me was the Good News Translation. I found this translation the most meaningful because it was the easiest of the four to relate to and was the easiest to read. I found the wording within this reading to be translatable because it uses writing that plays to basic ideas for example, “Then your arms, that have protected you, will tremble, and your legs, now strong, will grow weak. Your teeth will be too few to chew your food, and your eyes too dim to see clearly. Your ears will be deaf to the noise of the street.” These are concepts everyone can understand rather than the version that states “in the day when the keepers of the house shall tremble… those that look out of the windows shall be darkened.” I think also it rather invokes confidence in humans rather than making them fearful of god. For example it states “Have reverence for God, and obey his commands, because this is all that we were created for” rather than another version which states “Fear God and obey his commands, for this is everyone’s duty.”

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  13. Corazon (Corie) Querubin
    cowiebebeh@gmail.com

    Of the four versions of Ecclesiastes 12, I find the New Living Translation to be the most meaningful for me to read because of its forthrightness. As it is, all four versions uses different words to (maybe) deliver the same message, but different people may still get different perceptions on each of them. The New Living Translation uses vocabulary that is easier to understand which makes it more comfortable to read. It offers a more straightforward translation compared to the other three that allowed me to relate to it with ease. While reading the other three translations, I kept finding myself having to look up some of the words in the dictionary and search some other “older” words online.

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  14. The one that I could best relate to was the NLT. This is because I felt it was *directly* trying to target the youth. Just from the get-go, it clearly states 'Don’t let the excitement of youth cause you to forget your Creator', which means God comes first, before excitement, i.e., parties, girlfriends, daily anxieties, etc. This, as opposed to the King James Version, 'Remember now thy Creator in the days of thy youth, while the evil days come not', which gives it the meaning in the ball park of right now when you’re young you have less evil in your days so its easier to obey/remember/follow god. It almost gives it opposite meanings: the NLT 'stop partying remember god' (which implies that there ARE things getting in your way of remembering god) and the KJV 'there’s less things in your way of remembering god'. Since, I am young I tend to relate to the fact that, as a youngster I have a more *life with roadblocks*, if you will, as opposed to a 'life with fewer roadblocks'. Hence I relate to the NLT more.

    Angel Aguilar
    aguilar90201@hotmail.com

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  15. I believe that the importance of the Bible is to reach to the souls of its audience. The reader should understand the text with ease, in order to be able to analyze it. Bible is the root of all three religions and it is crucially important for it to be accessible in order for the reader to recognize its profound message. If the book is difficult to understand or interpret, it will not allow the reader to connect with any of the religions. Hence, I believe that American Standard Version is the one that allows me to understand the message of the book, while giving the opportunity to enjoy it as a piece of literature. Good News Translation of Ecclesiastes 12 offers a very simple and straight forward reading, yet the literary beauty is lost in it leaving only the dry message. I think that the bible should be read as a literature. Thus its language and structure are just as important as its message. All this can be found in American Standard Version.

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  16. Karen Roberto
    karenroberto@hotmail.com

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  17. Sorry Professor. Just noticed the name/email post.

    Kerry Katz
    kkatz7901@aol.com

    (kkatz02388)

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  18. Pamela Crenshaw
    starr1crenshaw@yahoo.com
    I think for study purposes I chose the New Living Translation for Ecclesiastes 12. It is the easiest to understand which simplifies the reading. Although the King James Version is beautifully poetic,I find having to look up the definition of every other word frustrating and therefore causes me to lose interest. My second choice is Good News Translation.

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  19. For Me the more meaningful translation of Ecclesiastes 12 was the King James version because it allows the reader to interpret the seriousness of wasting ones youth, and also leaves room for one to interpret the meaning of each premise at ones disclosure in order to arise with multiple conclusions. The other versions were too precise and well defined to the point were it left the reader with not enough vagueness to interpret multiple conclusions. Although it was more difficult to understand, the King James version allowed me to take a deeper thought into the specific message(s) of the passage.
    Miguel A. Ramos Jr.

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  20. Sorry forgot the email
    miggybling@hotmail.com

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  21. I prefer the King James version because I feel as though it is the most authentic and instead of clearly itemizing it's meaning it allows the reader to bring something of themselves into the reading. Instead of looking at it as a numbered list of guidelines the reader can come at the scripture with their personal viewpoint and still gain knowledge from it. It can help the reader think more deeply about the scripture and the way it can give insight into their life.

    Robin Palubeskie

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  22. Sorry, the email portion didn't stick for some reason. Here it is again:

    Robin Palubeskie
    robinpalubeskie@hotmail.com

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  23. Angelo Almonte
    supercomputer89@gmail.com

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  24. Sorry, the email is not displayed in my comment above. Here it is:

    editagohar@gmail.com

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  25. Of the four versions of Ecclesiastes 12, the most meaningful for me is between The Good News Translation and The New Living Translation. I didn’t mind The American Standard Translation being that it’s based on original Greek translations, but the “American English” seems dated. In the GNT I enjoy the clear, succinct language and believe it’s accessible to English Language Learners (btw I teach ESL.) In the NLT, I enjoy the dynamic word choice. Upon quickly researching the NLT’s history, the idea that 90 scholars together revised the earlier version appealed to me. It reminded me of how the Galer & Wheeler book talks about the Bible as an anthology with multiple “contributors” and redactors.

    In translated literature, I prefer “dynamic equivalence” translations where the message is maintained but the translation is “thought for thought” not “word for word.” As chapter 1 states in Gabel & Wheeler, “Every piece of writing in the Bible expresses a subject, not an object.” In all the versions I find the same subject present, but it’s in the NLT and GNT that I enjoy the author’s communication of it on the page. I enjoy the rhythm of the words and the visual they create without struggling with archaic terminology.

    One last thought/question-- The King James Bible was relevant to its 17th century readers, who were mostly upper-class literate males. I believe it important to note that in 1724, the overall English male literacy was 45% and female literacy was 25% (Brewer, John. The Pleasures of the Imagination: English Culture in the Eighteenth Century (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1997. p.155.) This leads me to wonder how many of the masses actually read the KJV themselves? Also, if they were listening to it during a religious service or meeting, did the reader expound on the language using more colloquial terms to aid common understanding?

    Jaime Ursic
    jaimeursic@gmail.com

    Duh! Found it… December post… Didn’t think postings would start until 2011 when I received your opening email. My mistake.

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  26. For Svetlana's comment from Joe Ryan:

    I like your comment on the verse itself, Svetlana. This wasn't much of a statement on why the NLT was most relevant to you. Moree on that would be good here. You did say that this version is the easiest to understand. But the others are also understandable with a little effort, aren't they? Should the Bible be easy to understand? Also, be careful of spelling and other grammatical niceties.



    Full Credit for this assignment.



    Joe R

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  27. For Charles Gipson:

    Okay, Charles. I think you have an excellent point here. I agree that the NLT is much more understandable. After all, it is important to understand what you are reading, and the whole purpose of translation was to make Hebrew and Aramaic more readable for people. Some like the KJV as well, however, because they like to delve deeper into its poetic meaning.

    Joe Ryan Full Credit

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  28. For Karen Angelo:

    This was an outstanding answer to the question. You considered all four versions and decided that the one that worked for you was an updated, less dense version of the passage. I think it is an excellent translation; at the same time the KJV has had a larger influence on the world of letters because of its antiquity (early 1600s) and the fact so many writers read the Bible in this translation.

    Full Credit... Joe Ryan

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  29. Hi there,
    Just checking, was the above comment for me...Karen Roberto. or for Angelo.

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